Police Trapped Thousands in New Orleans
As the situation grew steadily worse in New Orleans last week, you might have wondered why people didn't just leave on foot. The Louisiana Superdome is less than two miles from a bridge that leads over the Mississippi River out of the city.
The answer: Any crowd that tried to do so was met by suburban police, some of whom fired guns to disperse the group and seized their water.
Around 500 people stuck in downtown New Orleans after the storm banded together for self-preservation, making sure the oldest and youngest among them were taken care of before looking after their own needs.
Two San Francisco paramedics who were staying in the French Quarter for a convention have written a first-hand account that describes their appalling treatment at the hands of Louisiana police, a story confirmed today by the San Francisco Chronicle, UPI, and St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
When buses charted by the group to escape New Orleans never showed up, they camped out beside a police command center on Canal Street, believing it was the best place to get aid, protection, and information. They were told they could not stay there and should leave the city on foot over Highway 90, which crosses the Mississippi River from New Orleans to the suburb of Gretna, a city of 17,500 people.
Running out of food and water, they walked to the bridge, growing in number to around 800 people as word spread of a safe way out:
As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the
foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing
their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various
directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and
managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our
conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The
sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to
get us to move.
We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there
was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was
not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their
City.
In an interview with UPI, Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson confirmed that his department shut down the bridge to pedestrians: "If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged."
The increasingly desperate group set up camp on the New Orleans side of the bridge, where they were seen by several media outlets, until they were chased off at gunpoint by Gretna police:
Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge
in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding
from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from
the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill
policies.
The paramedics believe that race played a factor in the decision to block evacuees on foot. Gretna's population is 56 percent white and 36 percent black, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.
Comments
What an outrage! That Sheriff ought to resign. How dare anyone prioritize economic assets over human lives and safety.
Anarchy is slowly on the way. There is no money, there is no one to stop it all from happening. Board up your window, take arms and defend your family and close ones.
Resign???
What the Gretna police did was a crime against humanity. When I first read about it I wondered at its veracity - but now it is confirmed - the people of Gretna should be ashamed that they have such heartless, racist leadership.
I don't think anybody should be surprised. This is American racism and classism at work.
This is a lot of things at work. Those officers who made command decisions to block refugees from leaving should lose their shields and be charged with criminal negligence and interfering with a federal operation.
There's no reason to block people from fleeing an evacuation zone. Last I checked, that was actually the whole point of an evacuation.
Ahh.
Must've been a Christian sheriff...
JF
Definition:
Government - the most people with the most guns.
Don't ever (that means EVER) think it's any different in the United States of Rich People.
First: this account was sritten by two San Francisco socialists (look at the link), with a stark political agenda. Other accounts don't have the same dramatic tone, by a long shot.
Lee: you do realize that the criminals who were ruining much of New Orleans didn't stop with property, right? They found a lot of dead bodies in the Superdome. Other accounts of the same story say that people in the crowd were threatening the cops, which is why they fired into the air, and that it wasn't "before we could speak."
"That": "What the Gretna police did was a crime against humanity." You mean the part where he kept a bunch of folks from walking several miles to his small town with limited resources, where they couldn't get any help either?
...and, of course, if the Gretna police had just let a bunch of people come into their city from anarchic New Orleans, and that anarchy had spread, some folks would be posting about the "uncaring" cops who didn't do their jobs in protecting the locals.
One little side note: the two paramedics, being such caring people, wrote about people who were hurt and wounded, but didn't stop to help any of them, nor did anyone else in the crowd they were with (many of whom were also paramedics and doctors attending the same conference).
Nagin is a bullsh*tting, incompetent punk [adjective: Slang: Of poor quality; inferior] whose only qualifications for the job is that he's as corrupt as the rest of the local government.
Blanco is a bullsh*tting, incompetent punkess [adjective: Slang: Of poor quality; inferior] whose only qualifications for the job was the (D) next to her name on the ballot.
I lived in the Gulfport/Biloxi area for four years from 2000-2004. I'm more then familiar with that whole area and New Orleans as well.
New Orleans is a turd bowl reeking of sh*t, piss, vomit and decay. Oh... did I mention this was before the hurricane.
The corruption of New Orleans local government and police force rivals the best (worst??) that Mexico has to offer (I lived on the Mexican border as well for 5 years).
I am all for spending federal funds (our tax dollars) to help in the aftermath, whatever it takes. However, I don't want one thin dime of my taxes going towards any rebuilding of that turd bowl city. Not one dime.
Common sense says don't build below sea level in hurricane prone areas. By the way, don't forget to thank the French for New Orleans (and also thank them for the couple of tents and cots their donating now).
I applaud House Speaker Dennis Hastert for having the gonads to say publicly what I and many others feel about rebuilding that turd bowl city.
It would take many Billions of dollars, possibly 100's of Billions to rebuild. It would surpass the Big Dig in Boston for the amount of corruption, scams, cost overruns, thievery and once again, incompetence.
And after all that waste of money the following week could bring another Cat 4 or Cat 5 hurricane.
I say NO!
Give the Big Easy the Big "Final" Rest.
Racist much?
Well, The primary function of government is to defend its borders. So the police chief was probably thinking he was fullfilling his charter by defending his fellow citizens from an onslaught of refugees. It happens in other countries, why not in america?
Here is a quote from Mayor Nagin in the Times-Picayune that seems to confirm part of the story.
"Nagin's ire began to rise anew as he recalled a foiled strategy to send able-bodied refugees over the Crescent City Connection to the high ground of the West Bank.
"We were taking in people from St. Bernard Parish," he said. "If we had a bottle of water, we shared it. Then when we were going to let people cross the bridge, they were met with frigging dogs and guns at the Gretna parish line. They said, 'We're going to protect Jefferson Parish assets.'
www.nola.com
This racist commandant needs to do time.
Oh, good, the moronic brownshirt fucks are here! I like to keep track of just how fucking scared they are of this whole thing...
Cirby and A.Patriot - oh, nevermind, there's no point even talking to heartless cretins like yourselves.
Well, The primary function of government is to defend its borders. So the police chief was probably thinking he was fullfilling his charter by defending his fellow citizens from 500 of his fellow americans. It happens in other countries, why not in america?
What an outrage! That Sheriff ought to resign. How dare anyone prioritize economic assets over human lives and safety.
lee | 2005-09-09 12:27 PM
haw
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under what kinda rock you been hidin' chil', an' fo' how long?'
this is the usa...
here, property ALWAYS trumps life, 'specially if'n it's jus' nigras lives we bees talk'n' 'bout...
haw
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or, you're like 12 years old?
precious naivete, just precious...
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God Bless America...
Nowhere else in the world but here is Government-sponsored racism tolerated.
This whole situation is dispicable. I only wish the Presidential Election was this November instead of last. What I would give to get the incompetent George Bush and his racist cronies out of office. Only three more years of this regime.
JF:
That's the kind of easy crack that is as bigoted as the Klown Kops on the bridge.
There is a vocal bunch of Christo-fascists in ths country (including our hypocrite national so-called leadership) that has hijacked Christianity (the REAL one) and harnessed it in the service mean, narrow-minded hatred. The Christians I know have been sending money, and opening their homes to NOLA refugees. Let's be a little more precise in our name-calling, OK?
BH
The San Francisco Chronicle and UPI stories don't actually confirm the paramedics' story, they simply repeat it. There are various other news stories (such as the one from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch) that confirm parts of the story, but thus far I've seen nothing confirming the entire story. Presumably given the number of people involved more details will eventually come out.
Note that the Gretna cops were equal-opportunity scum: other reports tell of them threatening to shoot European and Japanese tourists trying to escape across that bridge.
I knew this was true the minute local boy "Kevin" posted a defense (NOT a rebuttal) of the action at Libertarian Samizdata yesterday. It amazed me how many people just ignored what "Kevin" said and denied the whole event.
At least now some reporters have managed to track down Chief Lawson and got a confession out of him. That'll be the end of the Ostrich Party, God willing...
Now: convene a grand jury - federal, not local - and get to the bottom of who ordered what and when.
Thanks for spreading the word about this tragic episode--one of many--in what will go down in history as the biggest failure in leadership of an American president.
God forbid America experiences any more "tests of mettle" under this pathetic Administration.
MR. McCLELLAN: The President's most important responsibility is the safety and security of the American people. He talks about that often. That is his most important responsibility.
www.whitehouse.gov
very nice, patriot. apparently, you know little about the social history of the gulf coast, which, i can assure you, gives new orleans a definite run for its money when it comes to corruption. perhaps you would know more if you left the airbase every once in awhile.
but that's not really what offends you about new orleans. what offends you about new orleans is black people, poor people, and at all levels of society, a culture that respects individuality. that's what bugs you. you think the only people you should have to defend are people just like you. well, sorry, but america is more than that.
what amuses me is that people like you assume people like me care what you think, or should. we don't: we don't care what you think, you don't have to appreciate new orleans; and you are always welcome to take your toys and go elsewhere. go to nebraska; there's lots of nice, christian republican white people there, you'll fit right in.
and do the rest of us americans a favor: stay there.
Read Steinbeck much? Listen to Woody Guthrie or Will Rogers much?
On the one hand people are criticizing N.O. residents for not leaving the area, on the other hand, that same people are sympathizing with the Gretna police as to why they did not let them into their city.
They were under mandatory evacuation orders, yet not allowed to leave. That seems fair.
I hope the racists on this board, and all over the place, find themselves in the same situation some day.
My most important responsibility is the safety and security of the President's approval rating. There is nothing I won't say or do to protect and defend that.
I don't blame those cops. I wouldn't have let those dirty n*ggers into my town either. We knew how to deal with outside agitators back in the day.
Everyone still forgets that Nagin and Blanco had hundreds of buses that could have been used to evacuate thousands of people. They could have done this TWO DAYS before the storm hit. They created a monster and now everyone wants to blame others who were caught up in this. State officials BLOCKED the Red Cross and Salvation Army from helping those at the Superdome and Convention Center. Where is the outcry for this? Those poor souls who tried to cross the bridge would not have needed to do so if BLanco and Nagin had done their jobs!!
On Shepard Smith on Fox News confirmed this story as well - on location:
"They won't let them walk out of there because I'm standing right above that Convention Center, and what they've done is they've locked them in there.
The government said you go here and you'll get help or you go in that Superdome and you'll get help. And they didn't get help.
They got locked in there. And they watched people being killed around them. And they watched people starving. And they watched elderly people not getting any medicine.
And now they know it's happening because we've been telling them. Repeatidly. Over and over every day.
And you know what they're doing now? And I'm not blaming anyone, I'm you telling what's happening.
They've setup a checkpoint at the bottom of this bridge. This is the bridge that takes you from New Orleans over into Gretna. From Orleans Parish, into Jefferson Parish. It's the only way out. It's the connection to the rest of the world. And they've set up a checkpoint and anyone who walks up, out of that city now is turned around.
You are not allowed to go to Gretna Louisiana, from New Orleans Louisiana.
Over there is hope. Over there is electricity. Over there is food and water. But you cannot go from there to there. The government will not allow you to do it."
the story may have been merely repeated by the san francisso chronicle and upi, but it was also corroborated first hand by fox news of all sources.
chep smith saw cops turn people away and geraldo rivera pleaded desperately to camera that the people in the Superdome be allowed to walk out of new orleans. things have come to a pretty pass when smith and rivera are the voice of reason...
As someone who has lived in NOLA, I can tell you that many of the 56% in Gretna would prefer it was 100% (and Arthur Lawson is unlikely to be the only Bull Connor candidate there).
While Metarie & Slidell may fear New Orleans, Gretna hates it (probably because it's closest to the heart of black New Orleans).
If it wasn't clear, what I posted was a quote to what Shepard Smith said, and a link to video of it.
Shepard Smith's reporting from New Orleans was nothing less than heroic. I didn't realize he mentioned Gretna on the air when he reported on the checkpoint -- thanks for passing that along, Karl.
First: this account was sritten by two San Francisco socialists (look at the link), with a stark political agenda. Other accounts don't have the same dramatic tone, by a long shot.
They may have an agenda, but I think every first-hand story coming out of New Orleans is colored by outrage, shock, and grief. The press has confirmed the most important aspect of their story -- the refusal of the local police to allow thousands of people to cross over the river to Gretna.
If that route had been available to them, the situation in the Superdome, Convention Center, and downtown New Orleans might not have been such a nightmare.
One thing those paramedics show is that the good people stuck in the city, who greatly outnumbered the criminals, were working together to look out for the young and elderly. If some outside relief entity -- FEMA, state, local, or Red Cross -- had been competent enough to bring in food and water and assure evacuation routes, the descent into total chaos might have been averted.
"There is a vocal bunch of Christo-fascists in ths country..."
Bill, I'll try not to presume to know exactly who you mean by "Christo-fascists", but most people usually include folks like the Southern Baptists, who have been exemplary in disaster response. I'll bet most of those Christo-fascists are doing every bit as much as the "real" Christians you know. Precision is usually the last thing on the mind of those who use labels like Christo-fascist.
HMS- it was the state director of Homeland Security (a Federal Agency) that blocked the Red Cross. Not saying there aint enough blame to go round- but get your facts right.
What I would give to get the incompetent George Bush and his racist cronies out of office.
I'm really not sure how that would affect this apparently utterly despicable action by the Gretna police. For one thing, Gretna Chief of Police Arthur Lawson is a Democrat, as is the sheriff of Jefferson Parish. Of course, there are Democrats and there are Democrats, certainly. I'm still somewhat surprised at the rush to blame the President for every action, no matter who did it.
Another deleterious effect of racism seems to be the election of Gov. Blanco herself. There's a fairly strong body of evidence that racism was decisive in parts of Louisiana for her victory over Rep. Bobby Jindal. There's been a bit of study of the race that points to that disquieting conclusion, particularly the effects of her late campaign ads depicting Rep. Jindal. Her reputation for being "deliberate" has apparently not helped.
Max:
Nope. The Louisiana Department of Homeland Security is a State Agency, not Federal. Here is their webpage. The Red Cross press release specifically refers to the "state Homeland Security Department" requesting that the Red Cross not enter. That's state, not federal.
While there is plenty of blame to go around, the Red Cross didn't enter because the state, which is under Gov. Blanco, requested it. The Gretna and Jefferson Parish police were hardly directed by the President to block the bridge-- and it seems that the people in New Orleans didn't even know about it.
Doesn't this make the Greta sheriff the top candidate to replace Chertof?
Kevin:
"oh, nevermind, there's no point even talking to heartless cretins like yourselves."
You mean the "heartless cretin" who points out that the people were going the *wrong direction* to get out of the city?
They were going *east*, into an area with no supplies or support, 180 degrees away from the only real route out of town at the time (I-10 going west). They were walking from one dry area into another dry area, away from the direction that any rescue or support would come from. If they'd gone into Gretna, they would have been in worse shape and would have had to wait *longer* for rescue.
Let's look at the timeline:
They waited two days after the storm before deciding to leave. That would be Wednesday (the day the Superdome evacuation started). They took up a collection for buses, which were confiscated by the state, and which were supposed to arrive 48 hours later (Friday). They were sent in the wrong direction by some police officer, and went away from the place the of the real evacuations. They had a couple of confrontations with Gretna officers, who were in about the same mental shape as the NOPD at that point.
Some time Saturday, they were found by a rescue team and sent to the airport.
At the same time Saturday, almost all of the people at the Superdome *and* the Convention Center were either evacuated or were being supplied.
In other words, if they'd just stayed in one place and not run off a few miles in the wrong direction, they would have been in better shape.
Oh, and don't forget to blame the victims. They might have stolen bread and water.
I see a Presidential Medal of Freedom in this guy's future.
the greatna police chief has a position waiting for him in washington in the bush administration...no doubt.
Yeah! Because Bush is racist! And...he's racist! And, ummm...Racist!
If I say it over and over, it makes it true, right?
"If some outside relief entity -- FEMA, state, local, or Red Cross -- had been competent enough to bring in food and water and assure evacuation routes, the descent into total chaos might have been averted."
Geez Rogers. I think you're being way too reasonable. You almost make too much sense.
But I wonder... does a city or other local government realistically have the resources to undertake such a massive undertaking?? Does any city have such resources?
I'd say that in the case of a massive disaster... the Federal government is in the best position to take control. That obviously didn't happen for DAYS.
It's funny how those who are accusing others of "finger-pointing" and "playing the blame game." It is not crass to demand accountability from your government... whether it be local, state OR federal... Democrat OR Republican. Especially when tens of thousands of people have perished and a whole city lies in ruin. If now is not the time for accountability, then please, tell me when a good time is. I'll write it down on my calendar.
Um, Cirby, I hate to point this out" since you don't seem to like facts, but I-10 was underwater northwest of the Superdome and largely destroyed as it crossed Lake Pontchartrain.
The Crescent City Connection was the only way out of the city. And to also clear up directions, the bridge was southeast of the Superdome and Convention Center. It was the only way out of the city.
And let me get this straight, now you're blaming the victims for not staying put? Weren't you and your ilk just raving a few days ago because those people hadn't got off their "lazy-asses" and walked to help?
You can't have it both ways.
"...the greatna police chief has a position waiting for him in washington in the bush administration...no doubt"...
maybe he would have in a kerry administration ... see link
www.sec.state.la.us
Mr. Originality: Yeah, just like repeating "Saddam has WMD" and "Iraq caused 9/11" made it true. The only difference, of course, is that those two statements are demonstrably false, while there is no evidence that "Bush is a racist" is untrue.
Treated like 3rd class steerage passengers on the Titanic.
Great leader, GET OUT QUICK, waer rising! JUST DON'T COME HERE! Where did MY America go? Now is the time to point fingers and shame the NeoCons into the drity class they despize. Did God put me here to tolerate theft of His word? Did God put you here as Judge? Please excuse, i am just so ashamed of some of us.
A Duh,
The guy is a democrat. I know you asshats want to crucify the guy so go right ahead.
These democrat voters got exactly the goverment they wanted and voted for. Its a one party town. This is a classic friendly fire gig. Both the victim and victimizer normaly play for the same team.
Just because the guy's a Democrat doesn't automatically make him one of mine.
That's the disconnect between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats recognize that there are people who aren't really that Democratic (Zell MIller) and call them out on it. Republicans put party above all else. Then again, you're not really a Republican, are you? You're more of a neo-con.
I'll bet those S.F. paramedics and the organizaers if their convention loved the low prices they were able to get in a low-wage city like New Orleans, with so many undereducated people fighting for low-skill service sector jobs. I wish everyone would turn around and look at the man in the mirror. Everyone reading this blog benefits from our nation's approach to poverty, so it's disingenuous to pretend that Bush is the bad guy. We're all a part of the problem, and potentially part of the solution.
Anyway, the biggest "racists" to come to light in the wake of Katrina are the predominantly African-American leaders of New Orleans, followed by the mostly white leaders of LA. Those two groups have consistently failed their constituencies , esp the poor members, for generations, with little or no consequence. The sheriff acted with complete callousness, and I don't support him, but that callousness was probably built up over years of watching N.O. be a murder capital with subpar policing. Whether racism was involved in his decision is almost beside the point. The point is that the sheriff's feelings about N.O. were a legitimate reaction to a long neighboring with a completely dysfunctional city. That dysfunction was the product not primarily of racism, but of the corruption and incompetence of both black and white leaders. New Orleans became synonymous with crime for that sheriff probably not because it was mostly black, but because it actually *is* synonymous with crime, even compared to most American cities.
Why are we even talking to racist scum like Cirby and the -- ha ha -- "A. Patriot" ("A" for "Asshole")? They're bottom-feeders who only want to get a rise out of you.
As for the police chief in Gretna, there's a special place in Hell for him.
R-cade is a communist.
Wow. Cirby, you take the cake. Lot of hate wrapped up in one human package.
Getting taunted on my own weblog by Alex Keaton hurts. I loved that show. I had such a crush on Mallory that I can't even see Jason Bateman on TV without getting a tingle in my special place.
You mean the "heartless cretin" who points out that the people were going the *wrong direction* to get out of the city? ... If they'd gone into Gretna, they would have been in worse shape and would have had to wait *longer* for rescue.
There was no wrong direction out of New Orleans! The place had become Max Max Beyond Superdome.
Gretna was under better control of the authorities and closer to places where buses could pick up evacuees. It did not flood, from the looks of Google Maps. There's no defense for trapping people in a submerged city because you fear they're going to loot your totally evacuated bedroom community. Lives are more important than property.
Shemp:
Funny, I've never said a word about the race of any of the folks involved. Any racism you imagine is in your head, not in my posts.
So (in your tiny little mind) I'm supposed to be racist because I pointed out that the people who wrote this story wandered around for a few days, when they would have gotten out faster if they'd stayed where they were, and that the Gretna cops were in the same shape as the other cops in the area?
It's been pointed out in other places that several of the Gretna law officers who stopped the people from crossing the bridge were black. What sort of racists are they?
Meanwhile, the sole reason all of those people at the Superdome and the Convention Center didn't have food, water, and toilets was that the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans.
Why aren't you screaming about *her* racism?
So you have evidence that he is? Seems that the default setting for lots of folks is that he's a racist unless he somehow proves otherwise. How exactly is he to do so, when the assumption has already been made? "Prove you're not racist" is rather akin to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Would he have had to exercise his apparently godlike power over the forces of nature itself by steering Katrina away? Does everyone have to prove they're not racist, or is it just Republican Presidents who appoint African Americans to positions of prominence in their cabinets? As to how Iraq became involved in the situation, I'm not quite clear. Who's been claiming that Iraq caused 9/11, by the way? Then again, along those lines, I suppose you knew that Iraq had no WMD all along, right? Centuries of combined experience in foreign policy and intelligence analysis from agencies the world over are no match for good old fashioned Progressive certainty that anyone with an "R" after his/her name is automatically lying, right? Not mistaken, but lying, eeeeevil, and quite likely to poke the homeless with sharp sticks as a hobby.
See, personally, I think that the actions of the Gretna officials in question are intolerable. They should be investigated at the Federal level, and I've no qualms whatsoever about the investigation taking on a civil rights angle, as it would seem that there are more than sufficient grounds for such an action. I find it rather puzzling, however, when the incompetence and/or malice of a municipal employee is somehow extrapolated to signify the racism of a sitting President (of the opposing party, natch) - which, again, has somehow become a given in many circles (rather like the "certainty" that President Clinton had designs on world government was among many on the far right during his Administration). The phenomena of generalized hysteria and demonization to the point of charicature regarding one's political opposites aren't unique...it's just interesting to see the ways in which they manifest themselves in new and previsouly unimagined ways as circumstances allow.
away from his small DRY town.
In-excusable in America.
He may as well have shot a few of them.
There's hate to go around on this comment page--a whole lot of people happier to point fingers than to analyze, empathize as much as possible with those with whom they disagree, and then try to find a common ground that fits both our need to function as a community and their sense of moral right. But then, that's not what the liberal or conservative blogospheres do--fingerpointing is a much easier type of daily procrastination.
Anyhoo, this Cirby fellow has been zeroed in on for apostasy to the liberal line, not for hate.
Why pay attention to the useless, braindead trolls? Just let Arthur know how you feel...
www.gretnapolice.com
"the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans. "
crock
of
shit.
Source it, Prove it. Document it.
Otherwise, I won't debate that point with you, and you lose.
i call shananigans on Cirby!!!!
Shemp, Wow, "a special place in hell" all for a police officer who didn't shoot anyone, though the people he didn't let in probably went hungry for a day longer....and what was he suppose to do with all these people once they were in his Parish? Give them play-stations to eat, large screen tv's to drink?
Isn't that Christo-fascist christian talk to say someone is going to hell?
Tread, Democrats don't put the party above all else? What color is the sky in your world? Where is the demand for the Governor of Lousiana to resign? Or do you think she did just fine through all this? Zell Miller isn't welcomed in your party exactly because he DOESN'T toe the party line.
Republicans eat there own..Trent Lott was taken out by conservative bloggers who picked up the story of his remarks first and chewed on them for days.
Rogers:
Gretna didn't flood, but neither did the area the writers were in. Most of the Quarter was above water. The area around the Convention Center was well above water. Gretna didn't have *any* supplies or relief efforts in it. All of the efforts in New Orleans were centered around the Superdome and the CC.
By the time the writers had their confrontation with the Gretna cops, there had been bus evacuations going on from the Superdome for *two days*, and supplies were arriving at the Convention Center.
"In other words, if they'd just stayed in one place and not run off a few miles in the wrong direction, they would have been in better shape."
Silly people, trying to get to where the food and water was. After all, everyone knows that evacuating tens of thousands of people from one place is going to go so much faster than evacuating thousands at several locations.
I mean, just think about how quick it is to get "out" of the sports stadiums like the superdome when everyone is trying to leave at the same time, much quicker than coming in. It's not like anyone ever parks across the street or a few blocks away just because spreading out the exit points makes traffic go that much faster.
Well, Well, Well.
The trolls over here are sure easy to see.
Sadly I'm not shocked to hear this.
A buddy of mine is right, the most valuable thing in a catastrophe may well be a gun. I'm thinking something with a scope, large calibre with a bipod.
Sad ain't it when you have to battle the cops just to save your family.
Damn.
These cops should be jailed for murder in a prison where they are placed with general prisoners, ie., mostly black.
They'll find real justice there.
Freedom of Movement...
US Constitution...
Perhaps he failed high school civics?
I keep wondering why the emergency workers wouldn't have wanted to stay and lend a hand.
MD--he may as well have shot a few of them? Um, no. That would be murder or attempted murder. Not letting them over the bridge is small-minded, chickenshit, and repugnant, but it's not tantamount to shooting them.
We have to be precise with our words people. Hyperbole just cheapens the truth, which itself is enough to bring us to tears.
So the Republicans don't want to rebuild New Orleans but they're obsessed with rebuilding Bagdhad? Maybe I'm off-topic but it seems a strange juxoposition. This whole worst of both worlds thing is out of hand. When you need "Them" they're nowhere to be found, when you don't need "Them" they're in your way messing things up. No thanks.
Bill Hall,
Until the moderate Christians speak out en masse against the extreme Christians, there will be this type of lumping together.
Islamists are slammed all the time for not speaking out against extremists (as if by not speaking out, it automatically gives permission). You are seeing the reverse trend.
I speak out against Christians all the time because like our Administration, the rhetoric OFTEN doesn't match the actions. So, sorry if your rhetoric matches your actions and you feel maligned against. But as a gay person who is being kept from marrying the woman I love due to the ACTIONS of these extreme christians and some not so extreme christians, I will continue to rail against people who claim to be christians.
Your timeline on this is questionable, Chad. Shepard Smith reported live on Friday night that the Gretna police weren't allowing people to leave over that bridge on foot.
Also, when you mention supplies arriving to the Convention Center and Superdome by that point, keep in mind that these people were not allowed in to those places by New Orleans police. They were told to cross the bridge into Gretna.
"the Governor ordered that the Red Cross and Salvation Army not be let in to New Orleans. "
Prove it?
easy:
www.redcross.org
instapundit.com
www.radioblogger.com
Cirby:
As the police cheif himself states, at that same time, buses had also been running to drop off people who had made it into Gretna at the juncture of the I-10 and Causeway Blvd. The place that was so chaotic, overcrowded, and unorganized that a six year old was found caring for six toddlers by himself.
Was this really the best use for these buses?
Couldn't they have at least packed them with supplies as well? (Gretna had stores, that means water, if nothing else. In emergencies, police are allowed to requisition all kinds of things, I don't think they'd get in trouble for unlocking a store to get food, water and medicine.)
The UPI article confirms that armed police were blocking the way out of NO, and that damage to property was a big fear. They can say that they also thought it was best for the poeple in NO all they want, but unless they also sent supplies with those busloads of people they are lying. Possibly to themselves as well, but they are lying.
If you found yourself abandoned in a city that had just suffered a major disaster, who would you trust to help you share the meager supplies available: a socialist, or a conservative republican?
As the police cheif himself states, at that same time, buses had also been running to drop off people who had made it into Gretna at the juncture of the I-10 and Causeway Blvd.
Are you saying that people were being bused out of Gretna and dropped off in New Orleans at the terminus of that bridge?
I am amazed how politically bent people are here. How you can take what appears to be racist local cops (MAYBE???) and say it is the President of the United States fault just boggles my mind. Anyone and I mean anyone who thinks it is the U.S. governments job to create evacuation and catastrophy plans for individual cities is either extremely ignorant or just plain STUPID. It starts with individual responsibility and works its way up from there. This is a tragedy and I hope that the police of both of the Parishes are investigated but to put this on the federal government level is just rediculous. Get over your Bush hating and try to approach the problem for what it is. If everyone continues to just stand on party lines and not look at where the real failures occured then not only is this type of tragedy likely to happen again it WILL happen again. Failures occured all along the line, people did not evacuate when they should have, the Mayor obviously did not have a plan for his city to get the people out or to support the people until the feds could get there which by all reason would be at least 5-7 days. The Govenor obviously did not work with her local mayors to establish support between the individual parishes. And yes the Feds could have possibly responded a little better, but to be honest remember that they have to first assess where they should respond. Keep in mind that we have strict rules and laws that keep the federal government out of our shorts unless we ask them to come in, it is called States Rights, read the Constitution, those laws are there to protect your states rights and keep the Government out unless you ask for help and certain bureaucratic things need to be done before they can act. We live in a world of laws and I know some of you don't necessarily believe in the law but it protects your butt whether you do or not and that law needed to be followed and as such it makes for delays to get the feds involved. The Mayor and the Govenor all know these laws and know that they are on their own for a few days following a catastrophy. Can this be improved upon, yes definitely but if all you people want to do is have a George Bush which hunt or play the race card and not delve into what the real problems were then they will never be fixed.
Jesus spoke against the Pharisees. That is what we have in the South. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan. While Pat Robertson and Rick Perry use this tragedy to feed their coffers, the groundswell of America is donating what it takes.
And there are still Dixiecrats out there because there is some shite pigs won't roll in. Especially in the South where the dislike for people of color competes with the dislike for Republicans and sometimes the conflict is too much to handle. Only Republicans never make mistakes.
The State Homeland Security Departments are conduits for national policy - informing the states. Go to the DHS website.
There is absolutely no evidence that the state DHS officials were not passing on federal policy.
Admit this is a mess. and whoever was responsible for that order should be criminally charged.
I'd just like to remind people that Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson is a good Democrat.
Democrats in Louisiana sure are messed up people, don't you think? Blanco, Nagin and Lawson. What a triad.
It was a time and place of great madness.
The survivors are fortunate with so many forces working against them and so few working for them. There but for fortune...
We should all count our blessings and send
a few their way.
As for the pointing of fingers... I'd let
the congressional investigations do their thing. They can point with the full force of public censure.
I have few doubts that the history and politics of NOLA were more than just a small part of the problem and will continue to be. New Orleans will never be close to what it was. But will it be better and who's "better" will it be?
McD
Tread Says:
"Just because the guy's a Democrat doesn't automatically make him one of mine." Oh, so now you get to pick and choose. I guess that ends the party affiliation suspense.
"That's the disconnect between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats recognize that there are people who aren't really that Democratic (Zell MIller) and call them out on it. Republicans put party above all else."
And the RINO play the same game on the other side of the ledger
"Then again, you're not really a Republican, are you? You're more of a neo-con. " As Ronny would have said, there you go again.
And of course you have completely missed/intentionally ingnored my central point which is that the parties involved in the refusal to allow access to the west bank of the mississippi are on both sides democrats. The parties that refused Red Cross requests for access to the dome and convention center and their victims were both democrats. The entire state is still for the most part a democratic machine. Or is the gov Blanco a female Zell Miller?
There are enough bodies to smear dozens with the blood of indifference, racism, and everything in between.
We'll need a South Africa - style Truth Commission before this ends. I hope I'll live to see it.
"There is absolutely no evidence that the state DHS officials were not passing on federal policy ..."
If you assert that they WERE passing on Federal policy, then cite any evidence you have.
BTW, there is also no evidence that you have stopped beating your wife yet, etc. etc.
It is YOUR job to provide evidence if you make an assertion. Did you take Logic 101?
I just came from there. None of you knows what you are talking about. Gretna stopped everybody: black, white, tourist, local. That was the only way out.
While Metarie & Slidell may fear New Orleans, Gretna hates it (probably because it's closest to the heart of black New Orleans).
There's no love lost the other way, either.
You Dubyalovers are proving that you are a bunch of evil immoral bastards with every post you make to these blogs.
This was racism pure and simple. People DIED because that bastard sheriff wouldn't let them escape.
You Neocon fascists can all go straight to HELL.
To quote Dick Cheney, "Go Fuck Yourself"
--If you found yourself abandoned in a city that had just suffered a major disaster, who would you trust to help you share the meager supplies available: a socialist, or a conservative republican?--
History demonstrates that there are plenty of scoundrels in both crews. There is certainly plenty of evidence that socialists are as adverse as conservative repulbicans to "sharing" when it's not in their self-interest.
If I were told in an emergency to pick one or the other to help me, I would need more information.
TOM3, recommend you have your lithium level checked immediately.
Tom3:
Again with the loose name calling. There's a difference between a neocon and a fascist. Cheney isn't even arguably the latter. He would need a political philosophy for that.
Also, I don't see much dubyalove here or anywhere else. I want to see a better america. I wish that progressive pages were offering ideas in these tough days, but they're not. All anyone can do is point fingers at the president, who is at best partially at fault. It's the same way how repubs get their panties in a bunch because they all hate Clinton so much that they can't talk seriously about any policy he would have supported. So too have we let irrational discourse about our president's myriad faults distract us from our actual objectives.
That's telling them, Tom3. You've reduced your opponents to rhetorical rubble via your extraordinary display of forensic skill. Well done.
Shutup! He explained...
On that note, I take my leave. Here's to the prayer that all of those who have lost everything in this hell will be comforted, lifted by their neighbors and fellow citizens (us), and restored to emotional, physical, and spiritual health. May God bless them all, and may He do the same for the thousands trying to assist them - at every level.
You are mistaken. There is no evidence either way that I can find.
I was simply answering your assertion.
Don't play your GOPer games with me.
Well, there is no evidence either way I can find that you have not stopped beating your wife yet, either.
So what was the point of your original post, then, RPB?
The parties that refused Red Cross requests for access to the dome and convention center and their victims were both democrats. The entire state is still for the most part a democratic machine. Or is the gov Blanco a female Zell Miller?
You apparently missed my point as well. Democrats tend to sniff out the bad in their party and try to disown it. The Gretna police chief is a bastard, Dem or Repub. I know you're trying to lie and lie and lie about the Red Cross not being able to get into New Orleans, but really, it was a FEMA thing. Blanco and Nagin did all they could to get help. It really is a federal thing.
As for Louisiana being a "Democratic machine", um, 6/9 Congresspeople are Republicans, but thanks for playing. LA is overwhelmingly "red".
Oh, and don't worry about guessing my party affiliation, I'm as much a Democrat as you are a Republican.
Easy solution, when that bridge and highway are rebuilt, simply route them around Gretna and not through. I'm sure the citizens don't want that dirty NO money looting their sales tax income.
RB:
Nice try, but no cigar. The Red Cross link nowhere states that Governor Blanco ordered the Red Cross to stay out of New Orleans.
Instapundit and Radioblogger shouldn't even require a response. Glenn Reynolds would cross the street to avoid the truth if he saw it, and I'm sure you'd react similarly if someone here directed you to a link from the ISO or Larouche. And that's setting aside the fact that those sources only quote feds doing what they've been doing all week -- passing the buck wherever they can.
The fact remains that there may be as many as 40,000 people dead in New Orleans today because FEMA not only failed to provide effective assistance in this situation, but in fact actively blocked supplies and resources from reaching those who needed them most. GWB will go down in history as the president who allowed his own people to drown out of pure contempt.
To any ass-clown dumb enough to agree with House Speaker Hastert about n ot rebuilding NOLA, i counter with this:
No more rebuilding and aid for people in those fine red-state towns and trailer-parks in Tornado Alley, no more aid or rebuilding assistance for anybody who lives anywhere near the Mississippi River floodplains or the Tennessee Valley amd Ohio Valley flood zones either
because all of those things are gonna happen again, so why bother fixing it?
I can only conclude that Hastert and people who agree with him are the type of people who lose IQ points every time they move their bowels
Ok, what would YOU do if YOU were sheriff?
If Gretna would have been left wide open then there most definitely would have been looting killing and total anarchy there too.
Gretna was not the best way to go to get out of New Orleans. There were no shelters there and no transportation out of the area.
We shouldn't be castigating the police for protecting Gretna instead of reaming the whole bloody evacuation and relief "effort."
wonder what these trolls who oppose the rebuilding of NOLA think about GWB's immediate offer to rebuild Trent Lott's house. I'm sure that's well worth the tax dollars, in their opinion.
What a bunch of jackasses.
question of the day for Jason:
what's the premise underlying your assumption that looting, killing and rioting would result if NOLA residents were allowed to escape to dry, higher ground?
it can't be all the looting, rioting and killing we're seeing all over Houston right now because so many evacuees were sent there, now can it? Unless I've missed something, that hasn't happened.
i challenge you to provide a justification for that assumption that isn't based on racism.
Didn't you all hear? We're not supposed to be playing the blame game at a time like this.
If Blanco is not being well represented by her subordinates, than she should so state, and fix it. Blanco's people did this. She is the boss.
Same with the Federal government and its CEO, as is repeatedly pointed out on this site.
Else, it is Blanco's administration's policy, and the buck stops with Blanco.
The rest of the innunendo about sources is just smoke and mirrors.
If you have better evidence or sources, so state. Else, the sources cited and their evidence stands, whether you like it or not.
I await your communications about evidence to the contrary with interest.
Although it was written in an earlier generation, BLACK LIKE ME offers quite a damning perspective on the casual racism of the good ol' boys of Louisiana. While urban New Orleans has certainly changed since that era, I'm willing to bet that the towns outside N.O. are still run in the same way they were way back then.
Have any of you bothered to really read the Red Cross FAQ?
"Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city" - under the circumstances, this may have made some sense.
"The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city" - If everyone had been able/allowed to evacuate, even to Gretna, the Red Cross would have had no reason to enter NO.
"the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives. " - When it became aparent that the evacuations would not/could not be complete, an emergency shelter was set up. No provisions had been made to stock this shelter, and subsequently people suffered and died. This was poor planning (very poor), but not intentional apathy.
"We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access. " The local authorities could not provide security or safe access to anyone, including themselves. Allowing hundreds or thousands of civilians into an area that, as we now know and was then suspected, was civily unsafe, medically unsafe, and logistically impossible would have seemed like a less appropriate decision. In hindsight, those volunteers may have made a significant differance, but at the time the situation was not as evident as it is now.
Before everyon jumps on my comments, I am not pointing any blame at the left or right. I am just trying to show that all parties involved may have indeed had the best intentions in making their decisions, and second guessing thier motives after the fact will not help devise a plan that will work the next time this happens.
Duke sucks.
-tw
Time for some massive lawsuits against that city..
Saying that New Orleans is a major law town, I have a feeling some huge class-action lawsuits are gonna be coming up...
If it was me in that position, I know I would be getting all kinds of letigious.
I'm confused. Jefferson Parish has a sheriff. Gretna has a police chief. Who did this exactly?
So this racist was a democrat.
No big surprise.
My god, it always saddens me how low mankind can go.
Somebody here (I'm sorry, there are just too many of you to keep track of names) said that anarchy was coming and we should all get ready for it. If they read the article they should be aware that anarchy is not coming. When the people who had tried to leave had the necessities of life (food and water) they set up a community and tried to help others in the same situation. It was the law enforcement officers who dispersed that community by force, reducing its members once again to individuals compelled to survive on their own. Anarchy has to be enforced.
A Patriot wanted New Orleans no longer to exist. His country will be in deep trouble without its main freight port.
And finally, somebody said they hoped the people who caused or aggravated this situation had to experience it themselves. Personally, I hope nobody has to experience it ever again. It's a forlorn hope, but I think a preferable one to wishing suffering on people, natural though that impulse is.
I've had to skim most of these comments because so many of the commenters seem to have been reading something other than what was written (and living on a different planet to the rest of us as well). Apologies to the genuinely concerned whose messages I didn't read in full.
May this colossal tragedy come to an end sooner rather than later.
The official website of the Red Cross needs to be as mild-mannered as it can.
It must continue to work with both the Lousiana and New Orleans governments in the future.
The Red Cross cannot be officially seen as casting blame, even when the responsibility for actions taken is pretty hard to avoid.
What is needed now is a candid "non-official web site" expose on what was really going on, regardless of how the chips may fall.
I have no idea whether or not President Bush cares about black people as Kanye West stated, but I do know that people of certain' races were protected by the military at the Superdome and smuggled out under cover of darkness. This has been openly reported in the BBC news, but I have never heard this mentioned in any US reports:
Read: "Britons describe hurricane ordeal" at
news.bbc.co.uk
" ... They later told them they would be secretly smuggled out in groups of 10 under cover of darkness as it had become too dangerous for them to remain in the stadium, she told BBC News."
" ... When we were leaving, people were going 'Where are you going?' and giving us looks."
I thought the full and real US active duty military had not arrived yet, only possibly the LA national guard, if even that.
Are you sure it was not the NO or LA police or sheriffs or similar, under local or state control?
Would the Brits really be able to tell the difference in uniforms under cover of darkness, in a Superdome without any electrical power?
Point is I've never heard this mentioned in the US media, I just keep hearing that 'race wasn't an issue'. Here, apparently, is hard proof if anyone cares to investigate.
As much as I might want to condemn these Gretna cops, it's true the main relief effort was coming from the west... letting refugees to walk out to the east, farther from aid, wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense, really. This is all just a side-effect of a complete lack of any feasible evacuation plan for people who had gotten to the Superdome and Convention Centre collection points, or who were needing help after both had closed.
Let's be clear... it was NEW ORLEANS civil authorities who ordered the hotels emptied, apparently. It was NEW ORLEANS authorities who misled people about the Gretna bridge being open. And it would have been NEW ORLEANS authorities who dispersed first one encampment near their casino headquarters, and another on the freeway near the bridge, in the second case at gunpoint. The "sheriff" in the original story who dispersed the camp after dusk and repossessed refugees' food and water would not have been a Gretna cop... the location of the camp described is well within New Orleans city lines.
Some Gretna police may have said some stupid things to people trying to slip past their roadblock that might suggest a racial motivation, but their actions were at least logical, if not entirely humane. I don't know what the hell the New Orleans police thought they were doing by this point.
Nearly forgot: It was NEW ORLEANS authorities who failed to establish a third collection point after their first two were overflowing (say, in one of those evacuated luxury hotels), leaving people no choice but to sleep in the street. You can't blame the Gretna cops for that, either.
Meet Sheriff Harry Lee, a close friend of Representative David Duke(KKK) of Metairie. I daresay they probably cavort in the woods in the evenings wearing hoods and bedsheets. Sheriff Lee gets re-elected by larger majorities every election (he's been Sheriff since the 1980's), despite (or is it because of?) the fact that blacks arrested by his department have a disturbing tendencies to end up hanging from the rafters of his jail ("I dunno, he musta just got despondent and hung himself!"), and desite the fact that his department quite openly harassed black people caught in white neighborhoods in his parish, pulling them over regularly for "driving while black" and arresting them for any penny-ante thing.
The funny thing is that Sheriff Lee is of Chinese decent, and only fifty years ago, the good ole' boys who cavort with him wearin' bedsheets would have been stringing *him* up from the rafters of the parish jail...
- Badtux the Louisiana Penguin
Somebody SMUGGLED BRITS OUT OF THE SUPERDOME UNDER COVER OF DARKNESS IN GROUPS OF 10 because it was too dangerous for them to remain there. Apparently it was fine for everyone else.
Selma
Bull Connor
Attack dogs
Firehoses
Guns fired by police
If FEMA had organized the federal relief at all, awaiting the evacuees across the bridge would have been water, food, clothes, and shelter.
If FEMA had done its job like it was legally required to be but didn't.
Dereliction of duty, just like Bush in the Vietnam era. This is on Bush because responsibility goes straight to the top. Be honest, Georgie boy. It's the only way you'll ever be more of a man than your lying war criminal dad.
A simple google search shows race issues are nothing new in Gretna:
CITY OF GRETNA LOUISIANA, ET AL., PETITIONERS V. CITIZENS FOR A
BETTER GRETNA, ET AL.
No. 88-597
In the Supreme Court of the United States, October Term, 1988
[...]
Whether, in this vote dilution case brought under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. 1973, the district court properly prohibited the practice of filling all positions on the Board of Aldermen of the City of Gretna, Louisiana, through at-large elections, where the evidence showed that black candidates supported by substantial numbers of black voters received almost no votes from white voters and hence could not be elected to the Board under the at-large system.
[...]
Read it and weep...
That link again:
www.usdoj.gov
What it amounts to is the initial response to any disaster is local, then state, ... and then Federal after at least 2 or 3 days.
That is when FIMA resources can get there. That is the real world.
All of the disaster plans say this, at all three levels.
There are no magic flying carpets in these plans.
No, this is not at all a Gretna gotcha.
It is a failure of disaster planning, disaster management and disaster response, with responsibility in the order listed above, and therefore mainly of the local and state officials.
It is a failure at these levels to implement their own plans and agreements.
Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida had far worse hits and handled them far better.
Louisana had a lesser hit and failed the test.
Oh, regarding Gov. Blanco and why she won the Governor's race over Bobby Jindal: Part may have been race (Jindal is Indian and suspiciously dusky for a Louisiana politician), but mostly it was because of his proposal to shut down the state charity hospital and clinic system and replace it with Medicaid. Governor Huey Long set up the state medical system (now run by the LSU Medical School), which guarantees medical care to all Louisiana citizens regardless of ability to pay (for uninsured patients they are billed on a sliding scale, from $0 if they make below poverty line to full price if they make above $150K), and today, while the majority of Louisianians do not use the system because (like typical government-provided medical systems) it is overcrowded and slow, they cherish the fact that if something happens and they lose their health insurance coverage they have that safety net available to them.
I remember my mother commenting that Jindal's plan to destroy the state's medical system for the uninsured and indigent had people in her working-class neighborhood simply furious because while they did not regularly use the system, it was there for them if they needed it. I was living out-of-state and could not vote, but when I heard what he planned to do, I told her I would have voted against him too.
Note that Blanco is a DINO (Democrat in Name Only). She is anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, in general a typical Southern conservative, and would probably be a Republican in any other state Political party doesn't matter much in Louisiana, due to their unique open primary system where the top two vote getters, regardless of political party, end up going against each other in the runoff election. Politicians switch political party on a dime whenever they think there's political gain, often in the middle of an electoral campaign. In this case, the Republican establishment and their money were behind Jindel, the designated successor to Gov. Mike Foster(R) who had been governor for the previous 8 years, so Blanco ran as a Democrat so that she could get money out of the Democratic establishment. It's a unique system in a unique state, and yet another reason why Louisiana isn't just another Southern state but something unique unto itself.
- Badtux the Louisiana Penguin
I think what 'cirby' and all his peeps are really trying to say is: "Damn niggers just shoulda died. And them commie faggots from Frisco? They shoulda died too. What the fuck they all doin' tryin' to live through a disaster and shit? Damn inconvenient if ya ask me..." and so on, and so on -- muffled only by their head being so deeply up their own smelly, unchristian arse.
Finally, those leftist liberals at FEMA insist, on their web site, that they had supplies of food, water, and generators pre-positioned for immediate deployment to the disaster area. This press release, on August 28, was from *before* the hurricane. It didn't happen. What happened to that food and water? Did someone divert it elsewhere? Reminds me of one of the school districts I encountered, where the food service manager was secretly spiriting out vast quantities of food out the back door to stock her own restaurant's freezers. What happened to
that food and water? Hmm...
In 1906, San Francisco was destroyed by an earthquake. The commander of the local military outpost marched his columns of troops to City Hall within two hours and said, "Mr. Mayor, we are at your disposal. What do you want us to do?" because he saw that the Mayor wasn't going to take orders from him, knew that any relief effort needed a single head, and decided on his own that the Mayor was going to be "the" man. The Mayor immediately dispatched the troops to help the police maintain order, search for survivors, and fight the fires that had sprung up. By the end of the day, thousands of people had been evacuated to safety, and a hasty telegram sent off to the War Department asking for food, blankets, and tents to house the now-homeless population of San Francisco. By 5:30am the next morning, every single tent in the U.S. Army inventory was on its way to San Francisco, and arrived as soon as the trains could get there. Now *THAT* is disaster response. You're telling me that, a hundred years later, we cannot duplicate what that man did with 19th century technology?!
- Badtux the Disgusted Penguin
Cirby, do you have any proof that the dead bodies found in the superdome were murdered? Or are you just spreading more right wing rumors?
In any case there is no reason to punish all people for the crimes of a few. The very idea is racist and so is the PC from Gretna.
I thought penguins were located a little more south than LA.
But I am glad to be corrected on that.
Seems to me that the LA medical reimbursement system is six of one and half a dozen of the other.
A way to get votes from dummies now and cop out later.
If you buy into either you end up a sucker.
Barnum said "There is one born every minute"
Like free lunches.
Great if you believe.
I guess he "had other priorities."
Depends on who 'who he' is ...
Can you retransmit using nouns, and including some specifics about what you mean by priorities?
Does your pronoun include the possibility of "she"?
Such elevated discourse.
Many of you posting here are either ignorant or stupid or both. Why don't you go inform and educate yourselves and then come back and give it another go.
New Orleans denizens made a mess out of their city, why did they think that Gretna needed to become a sh......bowl too. They had a right to protect their town. Anarchy is not allowed in this country. If the anarchists wanted to do damage in NO, so be it, but they should not have expected everyone else to help them to do it to other towns too. We would have had a worse disaster. Inhumane? Talk to Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco about inhumane and place the blame squarely where it should be, on their shoulders.
" ...Such elevated discourse ....
...Many of you posting here are either ignorant or stupid or both. Why don't you go inform and educate yourselves and then come back and give it another go" ...
Say, there, elevateddiscourseperson, can you come out of hiding and have balls enough (ovaries also acceptable) to show us how you are neither as stupid or as ignorant as all the rest of us?
Do you have some wisdom you can share with us dummies?
No?
Didn't think so.
I would expect better posts from a sophomore ... oh, wait ...
Anyway, we will be looking forward to any post you may have about how smart you are ...
When I saw Geraldo losin' it and Shepard Smith actually confronting Hannity's spin efforts, me and a friend checked out the records from the US Census regarding Gretna and New Orleans. I'm glad people have caught on to this.
This is yet another disgusting example of America's dark side. People who would actually block an exit path from dying, starving and dehydrating fellow citizens suffering from the worst American disaster in 100 years (besides the Bush administration itself). This would still look bad if it had happened before the civil rights movement.
For those out there defending the acts of the police, you should be ashamed of yourselves. I bet you probably call yourselves Christians too, so let me ask you, what would Jesus do? I'm sure he wouldn't block off your fellow Americans in order to protect your pristine city from them black folk.
Anyone who thought that Gretna was some sort of paradise with an abundance of food, water, and shelter doesn't know jack. First off, Gretna isn't some sort of rich white enclave (like, say, parts of Uptown/Garden District). It's strictly working class. And there was nothing there for the evacuees - the electricity was NOT on there (if it was, it was only in sporadic areas), there were NO red cross shelters set up with food and water, and in fact the only stores with any goods had already been looted, and the one shopping mall was burned down. The few people who had stayed in Gretna and other areas on the West Bank were barricaded in their homes scared to death. True, most of the West Bank had not flooded, but that was about it.
The people of greater New Orleans have always looked down on the poor working class stiffs on the West Bank, and it doesn't surprise me that the attitude remains.
Hello People! This is the DEEP SOUTH! You know, 'Bama, Mississippi, Louisianna... Did you NOT think it was like that??? Where the hell have you burnt outs been?
And, I must say there's some serious BIGOTRY towards christians on this page - talk about ignorant racist - look in the mirror - jeez
Re: Shepard Smith and Geraldo report.
Ohhh, that Fox News is just another whiny, liberal media outlet! ::chuckle::
Sadly, the situation went from a rescue operation to a pre planned in advance MILITARY-POLICE-STATE-MARTIAL LAW. The victims in New Orleans need water, food, clothing and a place to stay. What they DO NOT need is threats and weapons being shoved in their faces if they don't "stay in line" by irrational out of control National Guard, Local and State Police and battle fatigued Military, straight from Iraq. Several of them seem to be using ANY excuse to apply shoot to kill over rescue. There is a lot of misinformation being told about the extent of the looting, rapes, and sniper fire to justify this policy.
It seems unreasonable they wont let people take food from the stores that was not touched by flood waters because when there is a flood, merchants are not allowed to sell ANY food that has survived. They have to dispose of it damaged or not as a precaution according to state health persons. I know this for a fact because I was in a flood once and the local merchant of a grocery store was ordered to do so.
stranger81, glad you addressed that laughable post by RB which (I presume seriously) proffered instapundit & radioblogger when asked for some sort of proof. I don't think I could have handled it, my response is generally to parody the ridiculous, but some things are so ludicrous as to be beyond satire.
Alvaro's 3-4 days of photos give you a good idea of what happened in the French Quarter.
www.kodakgallery.com
You see the looting and the arson.
----
The Gretna situation needs to be investigated.
Sadly, what is being overlooked here is that since the Aug. 27 declaraton of national emergency by Mr. Bush, all responsibilty for the handling of the aftermath of Katrina was assumed by the federal govt. "ALL RESPONSIBILITY" as stated in the letter to Gov. Blanco.
As anyone in the military should know, you can delegate authority, but you cannot delegate responsibilty. Again, sadly, this has not been a guiding principle of this federal administration. From the War in Iraq, through Abu-Ghraib no one has been taking responsibilty except low level personnel who were considered expendable in a coverup. Oh, except for the female general in charge at Abu-Ghraib, she got blamed and discharged.
During the so-called confirmation hearings held for Michael Brown, he outlined what he expected his duties to be as head of FEMA. It included assessing state and local agencies plans and abilities to handle emergencies.
Compare the resposnse to Florida's hurricane a year earlier and the response to Katrina. The differences are stark and tragic.
pdf here:
CLICK HERE
FEMA's story here:
CLICK HERE
To condense:
It is no surprise that there is racism in the South, much more pervasive than in other areas of the country.
The lines between Democrats and Republicans are more blurred in the South due to the Dixiecrat movement.
That there is no excuse for Bush not to have activated a federal response immediately instead of waiting for days and conditioning federal assistance on Gov. Blanco ceding all authority to the federal government.
That first responders were overwhelmed by the tragedy much as they would be in a nuclear attack. The DHS should have planned for this.
There is a whole lot to be investigated and considered.
Waiting for months for George Bush and company to investigate this would result only in a white wash and "blame gaming" all others. (As Daniel Schorr commented,
we can only hope President Bush won't be too hard on himself.)
Gretna is a mixed-race town, 53% white, 35% black. Clearly, it's not a case of whites keeping blacks out.
I encourage everyone to file a report to the FBI at their tip page. tips.fbi.gov
Be sure to ask that the so-called sheriffs be prosecuted under the Reconstruction Act.
Please send this around for others to file complaints against these racist assholes.
I am Citizen Michael John Keenan
P.s. send copies to both Judicuary committees and all members.
For those who question the veracity of the story about the Gretna Police...please listen to the latest "This American Life" program on NPR. Ira Glass spoke at length with four or five people who attempted to escape from New Orleans - that's the word they used, "escape". One of the people he spoke with was the woman from the story above who had the experience with the Gretna police.
ALL of the stories are heartbreaking, chilling, and sobering. Regardless of whether you think authorities did a good job or a horrendous job...please, listen to this program and hear what it was like for them. There's no bullshit, no spin in their words..they're just telling us what happened. Go to the NPR website, you can link to Ira Glass and "This American Life" from there.
Here is the link for the radio show, unfortunately the RealAudio version isn't available yet.
www.thislife.org
GREESEYPARROT conveniently forgets to mention that the main reference offered to show that the Red Cross and Salvation Army were not let into New Orleans by the State was from the Red Cross official web site.
www.redcross.org
The others led to network news video and interviews. But they were secondary background material.
What IS laughable is GREESEYPARROT's
strained effort to evade the simple facts of the matter by blowing such smoke. Of course, he offers no evidence to the contrary, either. Best he can do is ad hominem.
www.nizkor.org
When New Orleans is rebuilt the should pass an ordnance denying entrance to the city for any one that lives in Gretna . Punishment for Gretna resident found n the City 5 days locked up with out food, water or medical care.
If you mean "state" in the broad sense, you are absolutely right.
Repeat a lie often enough and it will pass for the truth.
Sheesh.
If you were in a vehicle, you could enter Gretna.
The maps I have show the expressway exits into Algiers, New Orleans Parish, not Jefferson Parish.
What authority do Gretna officers legally have in NOP ?? Or was legality not a consideration in their actions??
(let alone morality.)
Exiting NO to the west?? Jefferson Parish again, with probably another redneck police chief.
And I meant my previous post to be :
<ELEPHANT>
If you were in a vehicle, you could enter Gretna.
</ELEPHANT>
Seems to me there was a governors' conference in July and Gov Blanco among others noted that the National Guard strength was reduced below what is needed to handle hurricanes, as the result of their being in Iraq and recruitment being accordingly down. This was echoed by other governors in the area.
So everyone was concerned all along about these potential disasters, except our fearless leader and his frat boy appointees.
The scope of this one was way beyond what we had in NY on 9/11, which was a photo-op for our fearless leader after he crawled out of hiding, plus a lot of work in one part of town by locals and people of good will from across the country.
This is why we need and have ACLU and NAACP
No, RPC, i mean state as in LA.
"... Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.
The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane ..."
.............
That is the official word from the Red Cross site, and the National Guare, local authorities, and state Homeland Security Department are all under Gov Blanco directly or indirectly.
Democracy Now covered similar incidents. [More . . . ]
Who let this happen for two days
Someone had to question what the Sherrif was doing.
The conditions in New Orleans, THE ATTEMPTED GENOCIDE AND THE USE OF THE HURRICANE AND FLOODING TO COVER IT UP MAKES EVERY BLACK NATIONALIST AND SEPARATIST IN THE SOUTH WORK HARDER TO REVIVE THE OLD WASHITAW EMPIRE THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE FRENCH STOLE AND 'SOLD' ALMOST ONE MILLION SQUARE MILES OF BLACK WASHITAW TERRITORY ( see www.suzar.com )
Blacks in the South MUST WORK HARD TO GAIN THEIR AUTONOMY, INDEPENDENCE AND THE RETURN OF ALL STOLEN LANDS.
The fact is before 1805, Black nations like the Washitaw, Jamasse, Guale occupied the region from Georgia to Texas. There was a Black (as in Negro) nation in California.
If people are really serious about doing what is right, THEY WILL GET THEIR ARZES BACK TO EUROPE, VACATE THE LANDS OF BLACKS AND INDIANS AND ALLOW THESE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE TO RULE THEMSELVES.
It is galling for any one of settler origins to vomit about Black people when they are squattering on Black land. Louisiana was part of the Black Wachitaw Empire. So was Texas, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Arkansas.
The only way Blacks will gain justice is when all stolen Blacks lands are returned and Blacks separate and create a strong Black nation.
After that is done, the blue-eyed can destroy the brown-eyed and vice versa. After all aren't brown-eyed people superior to blue-eyed people.
Aren't blond haired people from Russia more intelligent than blond haired people of German origins?
WE ARE FED UP WITH RACISM!!!
INDEPENDENCE AND NATIONTIME NOW!!
America is a third world country.
As a white person watching this genocide unfold, I can't help but wonder if this is what non-Jews felt like after Kristalnacht.
I'd like to see the police of Gretna should be hungpublicly for this act of betrayal against humanity.
Genocide (from Merriam-Webster)
n: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
- genocidal /"je-n&-'sI-d&l/ adjective
I do believe that the Gretna police were not stopping people from crossing the bridge before the hurricane arrived during mandatory evacuation. Anybody could have left the city at that point. After the flood waters rose and people freaked out, and many were dying in their attics or neck deep water, the others that made it to the superdome / interstate area were dry (food & water drops are extremely critical at this point but didnt arrive?) But anyways, those people had dry feet. why should they cross into Gretna where they had been hit equally by the storm with limited resources and had no assistance either. They could not help all those people, come on!!!! Besides that, I'm sure that the Gretna police thought that those people would be helped, and i'm sure that they offered assistance when they realized the retardation of the local/fed government. I, like most people running their mouths don't really have know exactly who to blame, but it looks to me like everybody from the citizens to the local to the federal government is to blame.
peace
If there is no law against this, obviously a crime against humanity, what has our society come to? This is how NIMBY becomes criminal.
This thread may have the word "ass" mentioned in it with the greatest density I've ever seen. But so.
A. Patriot writes:
Common sense says don't build below sea level in hurricane prone areas. By the way, don't forget to thank the French for New Orleans (and also thank them for the couple of tents and cots their [sic] donating now).
Well, we can thank the French for Nawlins, as well as St. Louis and Minneapolis and Topeka and a friggin' ton of arable land. As long as we're talking old transactions, let's mention the French aid in our Revolutionary War, where their support of us made the Brits ready to let us go, on the antiquainted theory of "one war at a time."
Common sense also says "build where it is profitable to do so," and before the maintenance dollars were cut, New Orleans made a good example of that.
Lord, when will people stop setting up the French as our national straw man?
When Americans start learning their own history. What are the odds of that happening?
I, personally, would like to see the police in Gretna rounded up and placed about 5 deep in a clear, thick-walled plexiglass above-ground latrine during the next braves game. Sort of like a public port-a-potty with a deep, clear base that contained 5 Gretna Police per potty.
Ideally, it would be an all-you-can eat chili-cheese dog and beer spectacular and you could watch live on the web or from the screen in the park as mound, after rancid mound of shit piled up around them until their eyes bulged out and they were just about to give up...
That's when the fun would begin. We'd open a door and let in some light and fresh air and tell them to head in the direction of the light up yonder-maybe even rinse 'em down a little as they approached the door to their salvation. Just to be told something like,
"You know, you were right. Gretna isn't going to turn out like stinkin' New Orleans...we burnt it to the ground so you have nothing to return to...oh, and by the way...You aren't coming out this door...alive."
Of course we'd use the more politcally correct stun-gun or tazer to knock them out and keep these pigs at bay--knowing that a couple of them would end up drowning in a pool of their own feces and defecation before they got the chance to starve to death.
I mean at least they wouldn't ruin the game.
==============================
=========
To be honest, I delight only in the short-lived thrill of just-deserts (pardon the pun). I would never wish on anyone this kind of harm nor the kind of harm inflicted by the Gretna police or the current administration.
What's even worse was the fact that upon searching Google for the story of some recent prisoners who were forced to line the walls of their cells with their own feces over the course of several years, I came across the following harsh realization:
www.google.com
It is a shame what happened. I saw those guys reporting it live - saying let them walk out of here. But - to where? To wander the streets of Gretna? Gretna's a city of 17,500, right? If they let everyone walk out, to Gretna - they would have. EVERYONE. People who needed help - and people who like to victimize people. The population of the Superdome would have filed into Gretna. Potentially 20 - 30,000 file into a town of 17,500.... do the math. And the resources werent there anyways.
This is absolutely un friggenbeleivable that something like this would happen in the USA.Ibet sherriff tight ass would be singing a different tune if it was his fat ass trying to leave a disaster area only to be turned around by some trigger happy Barney Fifes. anyway ,who is he (or they) to tell anybody where they can or cant go in this country.Im just pissed off beyond beleif that these people had no compassion for their fellow man during such a catastrophe.It just violates the standards of decency that such situations demand,hell , they should have been packing as many of these people as they could in their cars and helping them to safety-not throwing them to the wolves,after all isnt that their reponsibility -PUBLIC SAFETY.The biggest shame is that this fat ass will probably get a promotion instead of what he deserves-a jail cell.
Thank God I live in Canada.
Was said before, but you have to hear "Surprising stories from survivors in New Orleans." done on "This American Life" host Ira Glass
www.thislife.org
Thisa audio piece below is done so well you will literally see the story.
warning be prepare for for your sole to be shakenfrom its foundations....
What is is amazing here is that no one seems to criticize the NO police Captain who lied to these people and told them to cross the bridge in the first place.
As for evacuations and race, there is enough blame to go around. You have a mayor (who is black) in a major American city, as well as a Governor, who seemed to be clueless in handling the situation. Yes, FEMA's response was a disaster in itself, but what about the local officials??? Very few comments here seem to focus on the lack of local planning and putting plans into action to evacuate those persons who could not evacuate themselves.
As for the Chief of Police in Gretna, he did what he is hired to do. He protected the city in which he was in charge of doing. He didn't discriminate, "NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO CROSS".
Once law and order is established in the city where his residents live (and pay taxes), then other things can be considered.
I LIVE IN F***ING GRETNA, AND THAT PLACE WAS INHABITABLE! It didn't have the water damage that NOLA had, but it was total chaos!
As far as him needing to be shot, you show your ignorance. If you lived in Gretna and that type of trouble was right over the bridge and coming your way, and they had no where to go once they got there. You would have a different opinion on how politicaly correct you think you are.
It's sad to see what happened to the people of NOLA, but I am glad to know that my house made it through the flood, but I would have been pissed if I would have lost everything to looters.
Why should the interests of a town of 17,000 people be valued over the interests of a city of 400,000? If you allow the suburbs surrounding a major city to block access during a disaster, you make evacuation impossible.
An evacuation route over a water-locked city is a matter of life-and-death. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said that only one route out of the city was still open after the levee breaks -- the bridge to Gretna. People probably died because they weren't allowed over that bridge.
Additionally, it does not appear that the Gretna police had the authority to block the bridge, which has been designated both a state and federal highway.
Let the Gretna PD know how you feel...(504) 366-4374
all these fucking pecker-headed Gretna cops should be stripped of their badges & locked away forever & throw the keys away!! shooting at innocent women & children &* taking their food & water is unspeakable & un forgivable. hell, maybe they should all be stripped naked & tied to the bridge & left to die!!
I hope that the police and people of Greta, LA will suffer some major future consequnces because of their defense-of-property over saving-lives philosophy. Suburbs are often unapologetic parasites to major cities when things are going good. Short range thought makes these parasites disengage if their host becomes ill. Did they really believe N. O. would die? Rebuilding will begin and reconnections will take place, but memories of what happened will remain for years to come. The truth is: there would probably be no "upscaled" Greta, LA without New Orleans. We will see just how much they will be allowed to tap into the city's resources when they come back better than before. We are going to hear more about this. Some of the residents of Greta will even speak against this. Guaranteed!
I hope that the police and people of Gretna, LA will suffer some major future consequnces because of their defense-of-property over saving-lives philosophy. Suburbs are often unapologetic parasites to major cities when things are going good. Short range thought makes these parasites disengage if their host becomes ill. Did they really believe N. O. would die? Rebuilding will begin and reconnections will take place, but memories of what happened will remain for years to come.
